Rumproast Leftovers

rumproast-greenA few weeks ago I got an email inviting me to dialog with the folks over at the blog Rumproast. One of the regulars there had seen some comments I made about Islam at PumaPAC.org and wanted to talk.

Sniffing around their blog, I found an odd mixture of  profanity, snarks,  politics, and grisly anatomical fantasies involving the women who blog at PumaPAC.  Instead of deleting the misogynist comments, or debating the assumptions behind them, the editors and other commenters compliment each other for every particularly vicious turn of phrase.  They seem to spend hours a day combing the pumapac blog  for something in the comments they can collect  for their complaining sessions.  What kind of “dialog” can you have with people like that?

If that sounds like an exaggeration, here are some examples of the type of comments I found over there (I have had to add some asterisks to keep my child-friendly rating):

Kevin
spanish-inquisition-demotivational-poster“Tell the PUMAs over at The. Best. Mexican. Soap. Opera. Ever. that we really appreciate the endless hours of entertainment you’ve provided us with in 2008 and we’re looking forward to a lot more of it in the new year.”

strangeapar8us:
“And, no, I don’t get my kicks out of “mocking” you. I get my kicks out of thwarting your purblind political agenda and actively campaigning against it in online forums and the media-at-large. I only post here for the regular check from Soros, which ain’t nearly enough.”

Kerry Reid:
“I have absolutely no problem quoting the late great Michael O’Donoghue to you disgraceful racist idiots and losers: “I’d give you all a swift kick in the c*nts to wake you up, but I wouldn’t want to ruin my shine.” Now go back to crying in the Giant Bowl o’ Fail that makes up your collective lives.”

Kerry Reid again:
“If I was really being crude, I would have suggested you f*ck yourself in the *ss with a rusty d*ldo (thereby avoiding congress with those nasty Rapist Oppressor Real P*nises) until you enlarge your *nus to the point where you can shove your head comfortably up the enhanced opening.”

yetanotherfreakingbrit:
“As for Guy PUMAs, they’ll no doubt have bled to death after you’ve shot all their p*nises off or whetever the next fantasy is.”

skillit:
“Armed with Rusty D*ldos
On Fantasies we Ride
We Dance with Pumas Left and Right
No P*nis by our Side
Up, up, up we scream
Rise, Hillary, Rise
Until the Day that We Can See [minus corneal transplants, cataracts, shingle-related eye-disease] NOBAMA on the outside
So up, up, up with people (but only if you’re GIRLZ)
And save yourself for all the pleasures of b*tt pl*gs and d*lderzz.”

Tom65
“We need to do some more pointing and laughing.”

Brad Mays
“Why do you feel that so many men feel justified in using sexual imagery and language as a way of demeaning women engaged in political discourse?”

Brad Mays, of course, is sort of a Puma, or at least used to hang around filming Pumas.

And who are the Pumas they hate so much? What is the “purblind political agenda” the Rumpsters are so desperate to thwart?  Here is the Puma mission statement Manifesto:

  • Passing the Equal Rights Amendment after 86 years of struggle
  • Monitoring the 111th Congress and advocating for legislation that supports our mission
  • Documenting and Protesting sexism in the mainstream media AND educating the public about its widespread and long term effects
  • Developing a national women’s rights curriculum for all American children
  • Researching and investigating voter fraud and campaign finance violations during the 2008 election
  • Protecting women’s lives by strengthening anti-femicide laws and drawing attention to the crisis of woman-lynching in the United States

How do you talk to someone who opposes that?

Ah, but they used the word “dialog”.   They had sucked me in.  So I opened a first thread thread for the Rumpsters, then a second thread and eventually 11 of them came to visit. Rumpster Guests in the order of their appearance: StrangeAppar8us, pumarubbernecker, kcindenver, Mrs. Polly, sean, Betty Cracker, Clownshoes the Clown, yetanotherfreakingbrit, johnd, Observer at PUMApac, zipperupus…. thank you all for your comments.

What with the new semester starting and everything, it took me more than two weeks to sort out all the comments and respond to them. Here is the final tally.

Total word count: 11071

Written by Nijma: 6172 words

Written by Rumpsters: 7450 words (average: 677 words/Rumpster)

Censorship:  15 Rumpster swear words and ethnic slurs edited.

Okay,  so the Rumpfest was exhausting. For me at least.  What did it accomplish? I don’t know.  But I remain firmly convinced that dialog is never wasted.  And what did the Rumpsters want to talk about? They wanted to repeat campaign talking points. They wanted to comment about my defense of Arabs and moderate Islam in  the comment threads.  They were troubled about the variety of opinions in the Puma website comment threads.  Some were thoughtful; some were bombastic.

And over and over again they mentioned one particular Puma commenter, JenniforHillary, who had been involved in a radio show (transcript here) and a video (transcript here) about the Pumas. Curious, I went back and looked.  If I was a Rumpster, I would not be too proud of this episode.  Wonkette and Rumproast posted photoshopped pictures of her in order to make fun of her weight.    Curiously they did nothing to refute the points she made in the interviews about election fraud in the primaries.  The posts were taken down quickly after both the Confluence and PumaPAC pointed out the difference between ridiculing powerful political figures and ridiculing private citizens because they take their civic responsibilities seriously.

What the Rumproast did to Jenni was tacky at the very least.  When Jenni first started writing at PumPAC she was just excited about Hillary, and her posts conveyed her thrill in being part of it all, but after she was baited, she started getting nasty and writing in ALL CAPS: what a surprise! And as someone once said, what fun it is to bait people until they turn nasty! If you did that to someone’s face, they would probably punch you, but since it’s on the internet all they can do is get angry.  What cowards to bait someone until they get angry and then write post after post ridiculing them for it.  Did I say coward?  No, comic! It’s funny to bait someone until they turn nasty, yeah, that’s the ticket. Bullying tactics are funny.

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27 Responses to “Rumproast Leftovers”

  1. StrangeAppar8us Says:

    I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy the discussion.

    Just to keep this honest, I will point out that:

    a) JenniforHillary was typing in all caps, urging the sexual mutilation of men and fantasizing about the deaths of innocent Obama supporters long before she was aware of her critics. She was never even informed of her appearances on Rumproast or Wonkette until after-the-fact.

    b) The Wonkette posters were thoughtless and brutal. Rumproast, in contrast, had a standing rule against mocking J4H’s physical attributes, which was rarely violated. Criticism focused on her personal viciousness, destructive fantasies, paranoid delusions, hatred of men and spectacularly annoying voice.

    c) J4H was the originator of the phrase “shoot their c*cks off.” Any echoes of that phrase on Rumproast were parodies of her original insanity.

    d) Most of the commenters at Rumproast were extremely sympathetic to you, for your heroic defense of Islam in the face of attacks by your less-well-informed, racist Republican friends. We felt you were an intelligent, sensitive person who had fallen in with a crowd of wounded, petty thugs. You seemed better than that.

    e) No one was “troubled” by the variety of opinions on PumaPAC, which exists, if at all, within a very narrow band of acceptable attitudes. We were just amazed by the extent to which the site has been infiltrated by right-wing operatives, and its own obliviousness to how thoroughly it had been co-opted by non-liberals.

    f) J4H’s insistence that there was caucus fraud in Texas was handily refuted by a caller to the KPFT program who was actually there when it didn’t happen. That none of the Rumproast commenters addressed it in the threads you visited is not surprising. The deconstruction of PUMA myths was executed calmly and thoroughly over the course of hundreds of posts across at least six months’ worth of threads.

    g) I do enjoy thwarting the PUMAs, in that their stated mission objectives are a sanitized wish-list of noble goals that is utterly unreflective of their functional commitment to man-hate, anti-liberal political positions, right-wing fear-mongering (i.e., Obama is a foreigner or a Muslim, Obama is a socialist, Obama wants to destroy the coal industry, Obama wants to raise a private civilian army, etc.) and a daily program of robotic assaults on politicos, media pundits, local news anchors, private citizens and anyone else who sets the hive-mind a-quiver with righteous indignation. I take great pride in the knowledge that I orchestrated many, many useless PUMA prowls that consumed entire days but were doomed to failure from the start, and blunted many more by making contact with the intended victims before the PUMA legion launched its first fax. The debacle in Denver was some of my best work, and I hope that my children will tell THEIR children about the Summer I Saved Democracy from a Bunch of Flaming Idiots.

    h) “The posts were taken down quickly after both the Confluence and PumaPAC pointed out the difference between ridiculing powerful political figures and ridiculing private citizens because they take their civic responsibilities seriously.” What posts, where? No one I know has ever deleted anything because PumaPAC and The Confluence were upset. My guess is you didn’t scroll down far enough.

    i) I understand your desire to have friends, but I feel bad that you’ve thrown your lot in with Darragh Murphy — or, as she is known in other precincts, “Buffy the Victim Pimp.” As Tommy Christopher observed, she’s a gifted writer; but she has truly hung an albatross around her own neck by aligning herself with the PUMA-brand of failed hopes, misdirected anger and victim glorification.

    j) If all you found at Rumproast were “campaign talking points,” you either didn’t read very much, or you’ve been brainwashed into believing that ANY opposing position is a “talking point.” No doubt, I’m partial to my friends, but the ‘Roaster comments are among the most gymnastically erudite and funny posts on the Web, and none of us is on anyone’s payroll.

    Unlike the PUMAs, who specialize in all-cap rants, low-grade whining and funny name substitutions for “Obama,” the ‘Roasters actually think about sh*t and know how to use language like a dueling iron.

    k) You throw around the word “coward” as if you know what you’re talking about. You don’t. And if you don’t realize that Jennifer is a dangerous mad-dog with the soul of a psychopath, you aren’t spending enough time on your own group’s blog. She’s an embarrassment to humanity, but Darragh employs her as a convenient stooge and prop…much as she uses DancesWithPumas. God forbid those two ever awaken to how they’re being played.

    Cowardice is acting tough, making hysterical accusations and threatening violence to other people, then claiming you were attacked because you’re a fat, ugly midget who hates the world. Cowardice, thy name is Jenni ****.

    Sorry for the long post. Anyway, it was a pleasure to set the record straight. Party on.

    ***Sorry to edit Jenni’s name but she’s a private citizen and I don’t have her permission to post it here. For more about internet anonymity see the Electronic Frontier Foundation |here|. -N

  2. Nijma Says:

    Nice of you to stop in again, Strange. Thank you again for all of the compliments, but let me just point out that subsequent exhaustion does not always indicate lack of enjoyment of a particular activity.

    Let me also point out again that I am not like Rumpsters. Not at all.

    What I say about Arabs and Moslems is not taken from some ideology, but from my own personal experience and observation. If the democratic party had not chosen to try to marginalize women from American public life with their vicious campaign rhetoric, who knows what direction this blog might have taken. I would much prefer to be writing about Arabs and focusing on the Middle East–it is in our national interest for Palestine to become a state NOW–but the attack of the Obots is a personal attack on me. Puma is going the same place I am going, and as long as they are, I will be pragmatic and continue to travel with them, no matter how may people of various political ideologies are packed together on the same bus. Your blog is entitled to its ideological purity, of course, but if you keep staring at your own navels for too long, you’re going to be out of touch with reality.

    After reading some of the Rumpster assertions about PumaPAC and Jenniforhillary, I went back and looked at the source material. I expected that at the very least she might have an unpleasant voice, for all of the comments the Rumpsters have made. But no, it’s a very ordinary, everyday voice. Not the voice of a slick radio announcer or someone experienced with sliming on the spin, just a regular person’s voice. It was also pretty clear from the audio that Jenniforhillary was the one who had won the air time in a contest and had invited Murphy to be on the air with her, and not the other way around. Jenni was in the studio and Murphy patched in by phone.

    I didn’t find her ideas all that “hysterical” either. Take caucus fraud and intimidation. The huge and uncharacteristic discrepancy between the primary vote and the caucus vote in Texas is just the tip of the iceberg. There are a huge number of anecdotes and amateur videos from one caucus after another that makes Ohio in 2004 look like a Sunday school picnic. A congressional investigation is the only way to find out what happened, but I doubt there will be one.

    Or take the Obama proposal of universal military conscription. This one last saw the light of day as the 1967 debate topic for the National Forensic League. The arguments against this proposal need to be fully heard instead of just dismissed as anti-socialist hysteria.

    So Jenniforhillary is a “fat, ugly midget who hates the world”, as Strange call her in his above comment? Oh, how impressed I am that Rumproast is not “thoughtless and brutal” but instead has “a standing rule against mocking J4H’s physical attributes”. Oh, yes, I am so glad of that, indeed.

    The Rumpsters can throw around all the nasty adjectives they want, but when it comes right down to it, they are just making assertions. There is a name for that. It’s called “straw man argument”. Curious that Rumproast never takes something from what PumaPAC actually says it stands for, like in one of the main posts, and makes an argument against it. They’re too busy “collecting grievances” by stalking the threads, looking for someone that doesn’t meet their standards for ideology purity to make a case for “hidden motives” and give them an excuse to bully them on another forum.

    How can you know what someone’s motivation is? By what they say and what they do. I find Rumproasts insistence that Pumas have some hidden (and of course evil) motive reflects more on Rumproast itself than on the people they are trying to smear. After all, that’s the meaning of “projection”.

    The one question I keep asking over and over is why the members of Rumproast, if they really disagree with what someone is saying so much, don’t say so to the person’s face instead of coming over here and talking about them behind their backs? Could it be they’re really misrepresenting what the person said or taking it out of context? Seems like a lot of work to avoid clearing up something that seems like it could be cleared up so easily.

    Come to think of it, Rumproast has not exactly been in the vanguard for speaking out about violence against women, or in favor of fair pay, or any of the other issues PumaPAC publicly claims it stands for. Could it be that all these secret motivations that Rumproast claims for PumaPAC are not real at all and are just an excuse? Could it be that Rumproast really does stand for marginalizing American women in public life?

    But Strange “Saved Democracy” last summer in Denver? Oh, how I’d love to hear THAT story. I’m beginning to think Strange has a crush on Murphy.

  3. Alessandro Machi Says:

    Of course there was caucus fraud. Barack Obama won ALL THE CAUCUS CONTEST by a 2-1 average, yet LOST the pledged delegate count among all the primary state contest, even when Michigan and Florida were not counted.

    The caucus contests used 88% less voters to determine each delegate than the primary contests, and many of those caucus contests were in republican leaning states.

    Four states held both caucuses and primaries, each time Hillary Clinton GAINED at LEAST 33%-40% on Barack Obama over the caucus results.

    The proof is there, the media chose to ignore it.

    http://www.DailyPUMA.com

  4. Alessandro Machi Says:

    Of course there was caucus fraud. Barack Obama won ALL THE CAUCUS CONTESTS by a 2-1 average margin, yet LOST the pledged delegate count among all the primary state contests, even when Michigan and Florida were not counted.

    The caucus contests used 88% less voters to determine each delegate than the primary contests, and many of those caucus contests were in republican leaning states.

    Four states held both caucuses and primaries, each time Hillary Clinton GAINED at LEAST 33%-40% on Barack Obama over the caucus results.

    The proof is there, the media chose to ignore it.

    http://www.DailyPUMA.com

  5. yetanotherfreakingbrit Says:

    I just popped in after a while away, and I’m disappointed to see that observations made to you in good faith and with a degree of respect have been distorted in retrospect by you, Nijma. I thought a bit more of you than that.

    But then as you’ve since persisted in referring to everyone who did bother to attempt dialogue with you as “Obots” etc. on PUMA PAC, my surprise is not that extreme.

    For truthful record’s sake, where you claim to quote my words above, you are either a little confused or have been misled. This quote is indeed mine:

    yetanotherfreakingbrit:
    “As for Guy PUMAs, they’ll no doubt have bled to death after you’ve shot all their p*nises off or whetever the next fantasy is.”

    The rest of the text underneath my screen name up there is not. For clarity’s sake, you may wish to amend the layout of your quotes above.

    As Strangeappar8us notes, that observation of mine is based on repeated comments about male genital mutilation that have been posted on PUMA PAC, mainly by jenniforhillary, hence my snarking on it in response to another PUMA PACer’s suggestion posted directly on Rumproast that one of the women at Rumproast should join PUMA and find herself “a Guy PUMA” (since the woman in question is an out lesbian – in fact, one of the people you quote above – this suggestion kind of fell flat).

    And this remark of yours in entirely disingenuous:

    “The one question I keep asking over and over is why the members of Rumproast, if they really disagree with what someone is saying so much, don’t say so to the person’s face instead of coming over here and talking about them behind their backs?”

    Are you unaware that posts are deleted or edited at both PUMA PAC and The Confluence? This has happened to DancesWithPumas when she’s posted at The Confluence, so it’s not restricted to people who are not PUMAs. It was witnessed and eventyually apologized for by dakinikat when she cvisited Rumproast. In those circumstances, the only times most non-PUMAs – and it’s not just “Obots” or Rumproasters or Wonkettteers – can converse directly in any terms with PUMAs is on blogs which do not practice such censorship (like yours, for instance).

    Ah, you may say, maybe those deleted posts were hostile or abusive.

    If they were, they’d be just like many of the posts made by PUMAs on other people’s blogs. Sauce for the goose, eh?

    If you wanted extra points for truthfulness, you might want to provide a link for the Rumproast thread where you drew those comments from. It was an occasion when some PUMAs decided to abuse another blogger’s hospitality by posting comments of the sort that would have been deleted on PUMA PAC or The Confluence if they had been posted by one of your beloved “Obots.”

  6. theWatcher Says:

    I am an Obot, yep, just like the 66+ million people who voted for Obama. Puma’s are sad sad people, angry and bitter all the time, must suck to live in denial, especially for mean angry Jenniforhillary, and speaking of J4H, I love how you try to defend Jenn4 while at the same time she is chastising Murphy for supporting the Palestinians, what a great great friend and supporter you have there.
    pumapac is comedy gold, good for a daily chuckle but nothing else, your pac is irrelevant plain and simple. So I have one question, How does it feel being Pumapacs token Muslim?

  7. yetanotherfreakingbrit Says:

    Actually, I’m not done yet.

    In your post above, Nijma, you state:

    Censorship: 15 Rumpster swear words and ethnic slurs edited.

    I can only count 12 words you censored. Among what you appear to regard as “swear words” are references to the p*nis (there, I redacted it again to save yiou the bother), using its slightly clinical but anatomically correct noun.

    Please explain how it’s a swear word – if your concern is “child-friendliness”, then young people need to know acceptable ways to refer to parts of the anatomy in various contexts. If it has to be referred to, short of outright euphemism (most of which I suspect you’d redact as well), how else can it be named?

    But the real, reason I’m posting is that there are NO – count them – NO “ethnic slurs” in the quotes you give above. None.

    Perhaps you’d like to set the record straight on that false accusation?

    **edited for double entendre -N
    ***Oh, all RIGHT, I put it back, but I thought it was freaking hilarious. “yetanotherfr**kingbrit” Get it? Freaking=euphemism for naughty word? And after all that pearl clutching and bean counting about censorship. Such a brutal, brutal blue pencil I have, don’t I. Positively Stalinesque. *wipes tears from eyes* Must be the fever talking. -N

  8. theWatcher Says:

    Hypocrisy at it’s best on this blog, just like a PUMA, hell you are no different than BMW60 or KarenWI just in a different package.

  9. yetanotherfreakingbrit Says:

    yetanotherfr**kingbrit

    **edited for double entendre

    Is that your best shot, Nijma?

    Bye. It’s been … illuminating.

  10. Nijma Says:

    Oooh, you Rumpsters are just too outrageous.

    “token Muslim”:
    LOL

    Word count:
    for ethnic slurs see January 17, 2009 at 7:52 am. “False accusation” THAT. I stand by my count.

    Links:
    Anyone who want to post links, knock your socks off–comment links are “no follow”. In fact, I wish someone WOULD post a link to all this Jenni nonsense they’re constantly obsessing about. I’ve posted two whole transcripts of her actual verified comments in context for you to pick apart, but still no takers. And no, I’m not giving any link-love to teh boiz.

    Deleted posts at the Confluence:
    Oh, I believe you. Have you noticed yet I don’t post over there? My IP is in their dungeon. But this Jenni person everyone obsesses about is on PumaPAC.org and Murphy doesn’t mind honest disagreements.

    Fr**kingbrit:
    I corrected the format so it doesn’t look like you said something that should be attributed to someone else. Does that help any?

    And I do appreciate you Rumpsters adding all the asterisks–I’m totally wiped out with some killer infection and only dropped in to take out the trash. I’d stick around and frolic with you some more but it’s time for more antibiotics now and back to bed.

  11. Pete Says:

    lol…Hillary couldn’t figure out how to get 10 people to a caucus in Idaho so there must be fraud.

  12. Tom65 Says:

    For the record, I’m pointing and laughing.

    • Nijma Says:

      Tom65,
      “There are two mistakes one can make along the road to truth…not going all the way, and not starting.”

      – Gautama Siddharta, founder of Buddhism

      Tom65 hides behind ridicule, but what he hides from is connecting with life itself. Perhaps he is afraid of ridicule if he were to start and not be able to go all the way. Ironic that the very system he himself is helping to perpetuate is the one that imprisons him.

  13. Alessandro Machi Says:

    fraud and inaccurate accounting of how popular a candidate is in each and every state is the same thing. That’s what “fair reflection” is all about. The democratic party has in their bylaws that they believe in fair reflection, aka, fairly representing the will of the voters in each state. Except in instances in which Barack Obama has to give back delegates, aka all the caucus contests.

    http://www.dailyPUMA.com

  14. Eric Says:

    I don’t even know why I am writing here again. The problem is you are the sole “civil” self-identified PUMA in the internet outside of Afrocity. Even then you misrepresented what I wrote in order to steer the conversation into comfortable territory.

    The misrepresentation was that you quoted me as saying that Hillary Clinton has a “castrating aura.” That is false. I said that the media treats Hillary as if she has that aura, and I use the specific example of Tucker Carlson stating that he feels the urge to cross his legs in her presence. That is his complex, not mine. There is nothing about Hillary Clinton that evokes phallus consumption in my mind. I opposed her for valid reasons.

    Where we differed was interpretation. I took and continue to take umbrage with the Clinton campaign’s caucus rhetoric. I strongly believe that intimating that caucuses were hijacked by activists was anti-democratic hate speech. Her campaign made the choice to go all in on Super Tuesday. Her campaign went through February without a convincing victory, and these were choices that fall upon her purview. To discount her mistakes as being due to nasty liberal extremists was arrogant. Just because she lost does not mean the process was flawed.

    Secondly, members of her own campaign backed the stripping of Michigan and Florida delegates. This was agreed upon in advance, so it is unseemly to have made a signature issue out of that situation.

    And really, I don’t want to talk in circles with you. I have already said that the issues that the PUMAs back are lovely. But just because a pageant contestant says they wish for world peace does not mean that they are spending their free time working to make the wish come true. It’s called window dressing. Or a fig leaf if you want to be crass. The PUMA organization is using wonderful causes as cover to foment racism. Many of the PUMAs actively champion racist speech. Many of the PUMAs use graphic sexual situations to identify the opposition. Afrocity compared voters for Obama to women who had an toe-curling orgasm from a one night stand, only to wake up in the morning and discover they are married.

    But truly what I can not stand above all else is the marginalization of women who supported Obama instead of Clinton or Palin. Naomi Wolf, Gloria Steinem, and many others have been accused of no longer being feminists, and having their feminist credentials revoked. I can safely say that those women have contributed more to women’s liberation than the entire PUMA collective combined a hundred times over. It makes PUMAs look ridiculous to make themselves the arbiter of who is or is not a feminist. It is the very height of hubris, and further, is the kind of rhetoric that reactionary purists engage in. If someone like Darragh Murphy were to actually be the head of state, I would be terrified to live under her regime. And in my mind, that is a good measure of an organization’s viability. If that organization were to suddenly find itself in charge, what would be the outcome? And quite frankly, I imagine that PUMAs would execute traitors, persecute enemies, and my own personal liberty would be at risk were I to criticise their prerogatives. I don’t get the same vibe from Rumproast or Wonkette. I think the world would revert to anarchy, but I don’t think Sayitwithwookies or Ken would persecute PUMAs outside of the usual insults.

    So my evaluation of PUMAs: a racist front using noble ideals as a cover to associate african americans with drugs, hustling, and covert muslim sympathies. Hillary Clinton is symbolic figurehead because she lost to a drug-abusing covert muslim hustler. Any female or male who was once respected but has since been hustled by Obama’s jive should be persecuted and made an example of. It all revolves around fear of black power, and a certain degree of rape fantasy.

    • Nijma Says:

      IMHO, the subject of election fraud and caucus intimidation are valid topics for debate and investigation, and not prima facie evidence of raaaacism. Likewise, what is the problem with a candidate actually trying to win a primary? It’s called “politics” not “racism”, even if the candidate is female. You demean and dilute the concept of the offensiveness of “racism” when you try to apply the word to anything just because you don’t happen to like it. But maybe that’s the idea, hmmm?

      Likewise I consider the subject of who is a feminist to be a legitimate topic for discussion. Steinem was certainly criticized plenty back in the day. It’s part of the national dialog. I don’t approve of the current fashion for taking certain topics off the table and claiming for no apparent reason that they are forbidden topics. Democracy only works with a vigorous public debate.

      Your assertion that Obama is a covert Muslim is I think not justified, although it is the common perception in the Arab world. Especially since he chose to use his middle name (a specifically Moslem name) in the swearing-in ceremony. If true, I would think it an advantage in statecraft, but I think it not true.

      As far as Eric’s “evaluation” of Puma as a “racist front”: There are two ways to know what someone is thinking: what they say and what they do. To use mind-reading or “vibes” as proof of secret thoughts–always eeeevil secret thoughts, of course– is to engage in a very scary sort of crystal ball exercise that says more about the person making the accusations than about the organization they are afraid of.

  15. Bev Says:

    Alessandro Machi, why don’t you stick to the topic of this post rather than astroturfing? You’re either preaching to the converted or the unconvinceable so you’re wasting your time and everyone else’s.

    OK. Several things, Nijma. It’s been pointed out elsewhere that while you’ve been acting oh-so-very dialogy here, you’ve had no problem on PUMA PAC badmouthing the various RRers who’ve shown you a degree of respect in their exchanges here and on their own blogs. Shame on you. Your commitment to dialog is transparently bogus.

    You wanted links? Maybe these’ll do.

    The use of the word b*tchslap on PUMA PAC
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:http://pumapac.org/+bitchslap&hl=en&filter=0

    The use of the word b*tchslap on The Confluence
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/+bitchslap

    The use of the word b*tchslap on Rumproast
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rumproast.com%2F+bitchslap&btnG=Search&meta=

    Not a whole bunch of difference in those numbers. So get over it.

    The thread you drew those RRer quotes you’ve been spreading around PUMA PAC and here
    htttp://rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/happy_new_year_open_thread/

    Note the photoshopping to jenniforhillary’s face to cover it with a facsimile of the New Year b*ll (there ya go!) from Times Square.

    Note the uncivil invasion by phillyPUMA, who had to retire hurt early of her own accord because she couldn’t conduct herself even briefly without resorting to a racial slur which she was unable to even grasp when it was pointed out to her.

    Note antifish goading Kerry Reid, who you quote above, leading to her statements you quoted. As a guest on somebody elses blog you’d have hoped she’d wipe her shoes.

    Note that Kerry Reid has been active in the women’s movement for thirty years. I guess that’s why she didn’t take kindly to a patronizing lecture about it from antifish and why she gets angry when people like her and you, Nijma, try to lecture her about it and behave as if feminism was invented by PUMA. Also note that a number of others on RR have also been similarly involved for a long time. They may not stick to your strictures on language but they’ve done a heck of a lot for women over the years.

    Quotes from jenniforhillary? Well, you asked for it. Better get that censoring finger going because I’m not going to do it for you this time. Here’s a taster.

    543 jenniforhillary on 10.25.08 at 11:50 pm
    Taylor Marsh–GET HIS C*CK OUTA YOUR MOUTH and start acting like a woman who has some f*cking RIGHTS…..
    NO SELF RESPECTING WOMAN SHOULD P*MP FOR Mr. BLAH BLAH….
    I would rather die than support this man or the Democrats…and you can quote me on this
    http://blog.pumapac.org/2008/10/25/do-you-see-any-pumas-in-this-picture/#comment-211214

    I’ll be merciful and spare your finger and your younger readers and just give you a Google search term for her infamous “shooting c*cks off” rant and you can pick the bones out of it yourself.

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jenniforhillary+%22PUMA+PAC%22+shoot+cock&hl=en&filter=0

    Too bad you’ll probably have to edit that link too.

    If you can’t find her exact post there, then consult the various references to it on other blogs. You can either assume it never happened and a whole load of people conspired to make it up and post about it on multiple sites or accept that it was said and that’s what RRers and others are referring to (I honestly don’t think anyone could have made it up).

    *profanity edited -N

    • Nijma Says:

      Mr. Machi’s comments are entirely welcome. I don’t like a lot of rules–my main one is about spam, but sometimes I leave the spam too (with its link neutered) if it’s interesting in some way.

      I hereby take back my compliments to the Rumpsters for monitoring their language. My fever continues but I have gotten out of bed long enough to take out the trash, this time left by my Rumpish guests.

      Bev., I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make by posting a lot of google searches. If you’re trying to say that other sites use profanity, I think I know that already. And if you look at those google searches a little closer, you’ll see that in a lot of them the profanity in question is being discussed in a meta sort of way. In other words, the discussion is about the usage of a particular word, which it would be pretty hard to do without actually mentioning the word being debated. I’m afraid I don’t see the Rumproast having those kind of discussions about how language can be used by bloggers to enforce caste distinctions, stereotyping, and discrimination against women. They don’t even seem to be aware of it. How convenient for the Patriarchy.

      If the point is supposed to be that the readers of Rumproast cannot communicate without using four letter words, then I’m not particularly sympathetic. So far the only argument being made for changing my age rating as a WordPress subdomain is that if I don’t, the Rumproast readers will resort to their usual bullying tactics. So I suppose I’d better get used to the “shame on you’s” and accusations of “transparently bogus commitment to dialog” like the one above if I continue to bleep out the swear words. For anyone who is seriously interested in my reasoning about this, I wrote about profanity some time ago here.

      I thank you for the link to the Jenniforhillary “outa your mouth” comment that everyone seems to be obsessing about, however google doesn’t seem to be coming up with much for the “shooting” comment. It looks to me like she has been misquoted.

      As far as Jenniforhillary’s first comment, it was about a news commenter who had been very critical of Obama in the past and had scrubbed all the negative articles from their website. If you will notice the thread linked to, you will also notice that I did not participate in this particular discussion. You will also notice that after Jenniforhillary made the remark, one blogger wrote “Must you be so crude on the blog?” (10.26.08 at 12:11 am) and another wrote “You kiss your mother with that mouth?” (10.26.08 at 12:17 am). Clearly this one individual is not speaking for Puma, but she was clearly free to speak her mind without censorship.

      The commenter “phillyPUMA” I believe to be a Rumproast regular who uses that name to comment on the Puma blog.

      No one seems to find the comments of Rumproast regular Kerry Reid in the least bit offensive. Curious, that. The Pumas aren’t afraid to say when they think a comment crosses the line–no groupthink there–but it seems the Rumpsters either lack similar backbone or lack a moral compass.

      The arguments for the appropriateness for the language of both Kerry Reid and Jenniforhillary are similar. Because they have done so much charitable work, they should get a free pass on having their current actions scrutinized. Do we actually know that Kerry Reid teaches English to downtrodden immigrants, or do we just have her word on it? Especially since she has in the past written similar things about herself tongue-in-cheek. Good heavens, I work with immigrants–that should give me carte blanch to shout on about cutting genitals with a rusty whatever like Kerry Reid does. I wonder how that would go over in staff development meetings. And JenniforHillary has been involved with civil rights for racial minorities. If that doesn’t give someone the right to use the F-word, I don’t know what does. /snark

      Amazing what people think is really important in life. Looks like the swearing thing really hit a nerve with this bunch.

  16. Alessandro Machi Says:

    Bev, maybe you should reread the topic before making inaccurate gripes against me.

    I was responding to the following quote…

    “f) J4H’s insistence that there was caucus fraud in Texas was handily refuted by a caller to the KPFT program who was actually there when it didn’t happen. That none of the Rumproast commenters addressed it in the threads you visited is not surprising. The deconstruction of PUMA myths was executed calmly and thoroughly over the course of hundreds of posts across at least six months’ worth of threads.”

    ———————————————————–

    Bev,
    Rumproasters seem to think PUMA’s made up caucus fraud and media bias and sexism to hide a republican agenda. Once RumpRoasters delude themselves into believing no sexism, Media Bias or caucus fraud happened, it makes it easy for them to feel justified in attacking all PUMA’s.

    Why Bev, do you choose to attack a PUMA?

    http://www.DailyPUMA.com

  17. Eric Says:

    Nijima:

    Hyperventilating that Steinem sold out women and needs to have her feminist credentials revoked is NOT conversation. It is hate. It is woman on woman misogyny. There is nothing vigorous about accusation… because that’s not debate. It is a premise without proof.

    Second, I made no assertion about Obama being muslim. That is a whisper campaign conducted by a noted anti-semite whose “evidence” has been championed by the PUMA community.

    And I accuse the PUMA community of being a racist front because race is the energy that drives the community. Read the comments.

    Anyhow, you and I talk at cross purposes. The PUMA community is allowed to define misogyny AND racism, whereas I am not allowed to define either without being accused by you oblquely of God Knows What. So, you’ve made your bed…. continue to be an apologist for a hate group. You will be known by the company you keep.

    • Nijma Says:

      Eric, what on earth are you talking about? When did I ever make a statement that “Steinem sold out women and needs to have her feminist credentials revoked”? I never made any such statement.

      The Obama/Muslim comment I referred to was the one you made at 2009/02/10 at 12:37pm: “Hillary Clinton is symbolic figurehead because she lost to a drug-abusing covert muslim hustler.” AFAIK, you are the only person to ever mention the possibility of Obama being Muslim on this blog, although I have certainly heard it in the Arab-American community.

      What evidence do you have that Puma is a “racist front” other than your own imagination (“vibes”)? Oh, I forgot, the new Rumpster definition of “racist” is “anything that I don’t like”. So that basically means “I don’t like Puma because I am having paranoid delusions that they are really doing something secret that they aren’t telling anyone about”. Either that, or their openly stated goals are just to scary to contemplate.

      I am not allowed to….
      You’ve been allowed to say everything you want here, no matter how offensive, hateful, prejudiced or just plain wrong it is. Every single word that appears under your name is exactly as you wrote it.

  18. Tom65 Says:

    When in doubt, start clutching your pearls.

  19. Nijma Says:

    Don’t forget to yell “epic fail” from time to time to keep your spirits up.

  20. Alessandro Machi Says:

    Yeah, Rump Roast just may be a computer that spits out little quips every now and then.

  21. Nijma Says:

    And cute animal pictures.

    I’ve been thinking about writing a post about the Eightfold Path of Rumproast, but I haven’t gotten to eight yet.

  22. Alessandro Machi Says:

    Eric, not only was I neutral back in december 2007 over whom I liked as the democratic candidate, I actually slightly preferred Barack Obama at that point.

    Once I saw the Clintons accused of racism in more than one of the early races, I began to wonder what was going on and started to study things.

    That was when I switched from slightly favoring Barack Obama to overwhelmingly favoring Hillary Clinton. lol, I guess you are right, there was racism involved early on, reverse racism against the Clintons by prominent leaders.

  23. Nijma Says:

    I see where Murphy just switched to Obama today. She just found out he was black. Problem with her television adjustment no doubt.


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